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Posted on 10/28/08
COMMENTARY
No single strip that I have done (at the time of this writing I’m about 10 strips into Chapter 7) has caused as much controversy as this one. The comments exploded when this strip hit. I think maybe 1% of the audience saw this coming. And, even if they did, no one thought it would be this bloody.
It was always the plan to kill Dr. Rocket, and Tangerine was always going to be the one to do it. I don’t think it’s revealing too much to say that it’s all part of Dr. Klein/The Third Man’s overall plan. With the character of Tangerine, I was trying to examine a particular kind of comic book anti-hero, and this was my final statement. Not everyone agreed that this sort of graphic depiction of violence should be a part of the SuperFogeys, but that was kind of the point.
As one astute reader commented, over the course of Chapter 5 I took a character that everyone loved to hate (Dr. Rocket) and turned him into someone people genuinely loved. In the same chapter, I introduced someone people initially loved for his rebellious, sassy attitude (Tangerine) and turned him into someone they absolutely HATED. But, as far as Tangerine was concerned, he was always presented in a very honest way. I made it clear that he popped heads, and yet still it was shocking to see him actually do it.
Sharp eyes took note of the dates on Dr. Rocket’s tombstone. This little mystery is fully explained in Chapter 6, “Funeral for a Frenemy.”
THE WINNER OF THE SUPERFOGEYS TRIVIA CONTEST #2 IS...
LAURA SETCHELL! Congrats, Laura! This was a tight race, but as the only person to score 100%, you're are the clear winner. Laura wins a free SuperFogeys t-shirt of her choice, on sale now in the SuperFogeys Store. Laura, email me your address, won't you?
Everyone who entered did very, very well. I believe the most anyone missed was two questions. There's some VERY dedicated SuperFogeys fans out there. I had a lot of fun reading through the answers, especially Amanda's for all the funny little asides she added and Colleen's for some touching words about Star Maiden.
So what put Laura over the top? Could it be that she took the time to annotate her responses? I hope she doesn't mind, but I thought you might all like to see her answers with the original questions. Nice, nice work, Laura!
Laura: All my answers have the episode number I got them from in parenthesis. I did not simply go through comic by comic to get the answers, only to confirm
them. What can I say? I want the t-shirt!
1. What are Captain Spectacular, Spy Gal and Star Maiden’s first names? Captain Spectacular is Wilbur (98), Spy Gal is Vanessa (97), and Star Maiden is Elora (98).
2. Whose picture does Dr. Rocket have on the wall in his room? The woman in question (19) is Li'l Miss Missile, a member of the Carpathian Bug People species Dr. Rocket kidnapped (3).
3. Who shot Jerry? Dictator Tot was the one who shot Mr. Bur-Er, I mean Jerry. (124)
4. Why can’t the doctors cure Swifty’s cancer? It time travels and phase shifts, so they aren't able to locate it to
cure it. (41)
5. Why did Captain Spectacular call off his original engagement to Spy Gal? Dr. Rocket used a portal rocket on Captain Spectacular and Star Maiden (96), which trapped them in another dimension for six years where they fell in love (97).
6. How many chest hairs does Jerry have? He has only one lonely, sad, isolated hair upon his chest. (58)
7. Why is Tangerine called “Tangerine?” He pops his enemies' heads like tangerines! (164)
8. At the start of Chapter 4, “Dictator Tot’s Revenge,” Jerry was crying. Why? Jerry was yet again the kicked man in the wheelchair when Spy Gal
refused his webspace invitation (81) and went to his room to "cry about
something or other" (88).
9. Who is the Third Man? Dr. Klein is the Third Man (100), and this should have been more obvious since his portrait was blatantly displayed in every Third Man appearance!
10. True or False: Captain Spectacular and Dr. Rocket were once friends BEFORE they came to Valhalla. True, they were friends before they came to Valhalla. (152)
11. What is Captain Spectacular’s favorite kind of cookie? Captain Spectacular loves him some peanut butter cookies. (151)
12. When Star Maiden sees the other SuperFogeys, what does she see? She sees them as their younger selves (114 comments, 115-116, 121) due to dementia (117), probably multi-infarct dementia judging from her behavior.
13. What is the name of the deity that the Space Pig worships? Space Pig worships the Hog. (75)
14. What does Dictator Tot require before she’s willing to do ANYTHING? She requires a JUICEBOX. (62)
15. Why did Star Maiden slap Swifty? She believed him to be his younger self, and the profuse swearing was not suited to such a superhero's behavior (121).
16. What is on Spy Gal’s left arm? It's a Power Dampener to prevent her from using her powers. (11)
17. What was Captain Spectacular’s one condition in order to come to Valhalla? He would only come if he didn't have to wear pants. (134)
18. Who is Bill? Bill is the Nefarious Mr. Crook! (10)
19. True or False: The Third Man wants Captain Spectacular dead. False; the Third Man does not want Wilbur dead, since his purposes are "so much higher" than just kicking his bucket. (100)
20. Who is your favorite SuperFogey? Spy Gal is my favorite SuperFogey. She rocks!
Bonus: Who is the Healer’s father? ******** is the Healer's father! Episode ** makes me think so, since he is the *** ****** **** ********* to Valhalla and I can't imagine it was coincidence that ** ***** up *****, eh? (Brock's note: Oh, come on, you didn't think I'd give that one away, did you? Not that it isn't easy to figure out, but still... Laura, just know that you're absolutely, 100% right.)
SuperFogeys Makes the Top Ten of Webcomic Idol 2008!
Webcomic Idol is a contest hosted by Bomb Shelter Comics that pits the best webcomics against each other in an "American Idol" like fashion. First week, 5 comics get eliminated and then it's one per week after that until the last comic standing gets to be a part of the Bomb Shelter Comics Community.
The Webcomic Idol 2008 Top Ten:
Shi Long Pang
The Superfogeys
The Book of Biff
Soul Driver
Simulated Comic Product
Xylia
Newspaper Comic Strip
Marooned
Lawn Darts
Calamities of Nature
You can read all of the Judges' initial comments on the comics, including the SuperFogeys, here.
SF NEEDS YOUR HELP! Week one voting is going on now and, as of this writing, SF is in the bottom five. All you have to do is vote for SF is VOTE FOR ANY OTHER COMIC. That's right, vote for the comic you LEAST like. At the end of this first week the comics that are the top five vote-getters will be eliminated.
Voting is easy, no registration required. Simply follow this link and click on any comic BESIDES SF to cast your vote. Let's see if we can turn this thing around.
The End of Chapter 5, "The Redemption of Dr. Rocket"
Well, this is it. This is what it's all been leading to. Now, finally, I can reveal the title of the next chapter. I think you'll see why I had to keep SuperFogeys Chapter 6 a secret until now: "Funeral for a Frenemy"
There you go. I'm sure we'll have lots to talk about today.
SuperFogeys Volume One Now Available!
POSTED 9/28/09
SuperFogeys Volume One, collecting Chapters 1-5, Five Untold Stories, Sketches and much, much more i... »more
Th3rd World makes the jump to iphone with Comixology
POSTED 7/23/09
San Diego, CA – July 23, 2009 – Today at Comic-Con International, Iconology Inc. announ... »more
SuperFogeys now available via mobile app through iVerse
POSTED 7/1/09
In an effort to extend the reach of our online comics Th3rd World Studios signed an agreement with i... »more
SuperFogeys Celebrates its 200th Episode!
POSTED 3/19/09
Today marks the release of the 200th episode of the SuperFogeys. Don't miss it! »more
Broken Frontier Interview with Publisher Michael DeVito
POSTED 1/14/09
Tyler Chin-Tanner, was kind enough to interview Th3rd World Studios publisher, Michael DeVito, for h... »more
SuperFogeys Analysis #2 by West Point Cadet Michael Johnston
SuperFogeys Superfan (and founder of the SuperFogeys Facebook Fan Club) Michael Johnston strikes aga...
» read entryWho and What I?m Voting For
I have spent the past year decidedly undecided. Tomorrow, I cast my ballot. I do so without the ...
» read entryA Rhetorical Analysis of the SuperFogeys by Cadet David M. Johnston ?12, CO F4
And now for something completely different… Michael Johnston is one of the earliest SuperFogey...
» read entry
Irma says...
posted 10/28/08 12:37 am
OH. MY. GOD. OH! MY! GOD!Oh yeah... and...ewe!
But... OH MY GAAAAAWD!!!!
And congrats Laura!
tpiro says...
posted 10/28/08 1:13 am
Wow, I'm blown away.japlander says...
posted 10/28/08 1:17 am
(OO)This was..... um..... defiantly not what I expected at all!!!!!!
And CS still standing there with his thumb up his butt?!?!?!?!
What is in store for Valhalla now?!?!?!?!
Congrats to Laura... although I did not enter, it seems like she did alot of digging to get the answers!! way to go!!
tyler_durden says...
posted 10/28/08 3:41 am
congrats laura!it looks like i missed the last bonus question because i picked ********* and not *********.
and Doc rocket gets pulped!
(hey brock,i would truly like to know which one(s) i missed)
Chip says...
posted 10/28/08 4:56 am
Bbrrooocckkkee! You ga sum splainin' to do!Dude, I SERIOUSLY feel like I just got sucker punched in the gut!
Michael DeVito says...
posted 10/28/08 5:40 am
598 BC, wow what's up with that.amanda says...
posted 10/28/08 5:59 am
What? WHAT?! I've never felt so awful about a villain's death =[ Tangerine is an incredible buttface - and very very messy.On a happier note, congratulations Laura!
Tom says...
posted 10/28/08 6:03 am
Ha, I knew it! How did CS think Tangerine wouldn't do it? Now it's gonna get real interesting. You got big ones Brock ;)Conk says...
posted 10/28/08 6:04 am
Brock,I think you should consider naming the next chapter "How to get supervillian goo off your supersuit" instead.
I don't know which is worse, the red panel with "pop" or the next panel... twisted.
Scott says...
posted 10/28/08 6:11 am
That was uncalled for. I'm done reading for now.Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 8:38 am
Irma - I take it you're surprised then?Tpiro - In a good way?
Japlander - Not AT ALL, at all? And here I thought I was making it too obvious. As for what happens next in Valhalla....I'd ask Dr. Klein that one.
Tyler D. - You only missed one question - Number 10. Better luck next time, dude!
Chip - Well, is it bad to say that was the reaction I was hoping for? I mean, I'm no proponent of shock for the sake of shock, but if someone's going to die, I wanted to be sure we all felt it. Beyond that, you're just gonna have to see how this story plays out. I'm sure it's not revelation to say that this is "all part of the plan..." I knew this was coming well over a year ago and it happened in exactly the way I thought it would. I ask for your faith going forward.
Michael D. - Indeed. I think everyone is a little too shocked to consider the two pieces of information dropped in the last panel. I doubt most have even noticed.
Amanda - I think "buttface" is pretty appropriate. Glad you didn't see it coming.
Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 8:39 am
Tom - ...but there's always one guy in the room who sees it a mile away, isn't there? But here's the thing...Tom you're pretty much of the same mind as me on this one. This entire chapter was set up to support this inevitable conclusion. This is who Tangerine is and he and others (Captain Spectacular II, Jerry, etc.), (and, by extension, me) made that very clear. There's more I have to say on that, but I want to let this story speak for itself for a little while.Conk - Thank DeVito for the red panel. That was the result of a bit of color assist from him. Thanks, Mike!
Scott - Man, I'm real sorry to lose you. You've been one of my most favorite readers and been right there with me as I've been building the story and mythology of SF. I know your feeling on the Tangerine character and while I'm not entirely surprised by your reaction, I would ask that you consider just what I'm trying to say with this chapter. Tangerine started out as the character everyone thought was pretty cool...and now most everyone hates him. That's not really by accident. The SF world I've created here allows me to take alternative version of some of my favorite and not-so-favorite characters and do things with them and put them in situations that I've always wanted to see. Also, as far as SF has its roots in parody (but is not strictly beholden to it), I feel like what I'm also offering is a bit of commentary. Again, I don't want to spell it all out for the reader like me who likes to figure things out on his/her own, but maybe this isn't as "uncalled" for as you think. Just something to chew on, if you're still out there. I'm certainly respectful of your feelings and I know that for some I have crossed a line today and I accept that and take responsibility for that.
Chip says...
posted 10/28/08 9:16 am
I didn't say it was bad. IT's amazing storytelling. VERY impactful. You've just opened so many holes now that need to be filled (why is CS just standing there? Not just now, but when 2 ladies he loves have their clocks cleaned? Why would no one know what a homicidal maniac T is?Personally, I love that you got me so invested in DR (heck, I even chose to draw him for the last trade), knowing full well what was going to happen.
You don't need my faith. You have my admiration.
Double D says...
posted 10/28/08 9:28 am
Wow. I didn't see this coming!DD.
Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 9:33 am
Chip - It means a lot to me that you would say that. I know you've been critical of some of the "dark" or "serious" stuff I've done with SF in the past. So that fact that you can be on board with this means a lot. As far as no one knowing what a homicidal maniac Tangerine is...well, they do know. One of the points I tried to make at the end of this chapter was that at Valhalla the rules are different. A sort of truce is called between heroes and villains. Oh, sure, Dr. Rocket has always had his schemes, but he never crossed the line into actually going through with anything, or at least it was never successful. All part of the game up til this point. What I was trying to get across was that the Fogeys just figured Tangerine would fall in line. Jerry, with his animosity towards Tangerine already in place (and, as he laid out for us, a correct idea of just who Tangerine is), was the only one who knew better, which is why he freaked when Dr. Rocket came into his hospital room. Everyone else just figured there was no way Tangerine would break Valhalla rules like that.As for Captain Spectacular's inaction...that's a separate issue in my mind. Without giving too much away, someone WILL be calling him out on that in the next chapter. Don't expect it right away, but it's coming. All part of CS's larger character arc that is one of the backbones of the story I'm telling.
As for getting you invested in DR...can I just say that were several times during the work we did on "Cellmates" that I wanted to tell you? I'm glad you (and, I assume, others) got invested in DR. The next chapter won't matter one lick if you don't care about him.
DoubleD - Hey man, good to know you're still out there! Thanks for chiming in.
doubledcomics says...
posted 10/28/08 9:37 am
Is he REALLY gone Brock?DD.
Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 9:54 am
Double D - I really, really want to answer that question...but I know better than that.Danny Burleson says...
posted 10/28/08 10:10 am
Dr. Rocket, we hardly knew thee-- wait, you were around for centuries apparently. So, good, long life. At least you went out with a... pop.me! (prematurely disappointed) says...
posted 10/28/08 10:54 am
Great visual in panel 1. POP!wit says...
posted 10/28/08 10:57 am
I suspect a twist! There's no way the Doc is dead. He'll regenerate in the form of an arthritis suppository or something. I don't believe. I CAN"T.Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 11:02 am
Danny B. - Oooh...you went there. Never fear, you'll get to know a lot more about Dr. Rocket in the next chapter.ME! - Thanks! Kinda gruesome, but it is what it is.
Wit - Believe what you want, it's all good. I like the suppository idea though. That's just friggin' gross.
Evil Robot says...
posted 10/28/08 11:39 am
I think you really hit it big with this story line. You managed to make doctor rocket a character that everyone (well at least me) wanted to see get hurt really bad into a character that people now care about. Over the last few strips he redeemed himself by saving Jerry. Then you took a character that many of us liked and again changed all our opinons about him. This was an awesome chaper man. And by the amount of comments as of late you seem to be picking up a lot of readers. Great job man!!Chip says...
posted 10/28/08 12:22 pm
I think I was a critic of past heaviness because I didn't understand the nature of SF. I'm less put off by it now because I understand that SF isn't a comedy. It's more of a dramady (I hate that word almost as much as "staycation").Chip says...
posted 10/28/08 12:24 pm
Oh, and thank you VERY much for not telling me what was coming. SF is very much a read I like to experience on my own terms. I actually would have been cross had you told me.wit says...
posted 10/28/08 1:02 pm
Brock: la la la...I can't hear you...*denial*Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 1:38 pm
Evil Robot - Yeah, all the comments lately have been a real bonus. It just makes this all worth doing. Thanks so much for your insightful take on this chapter. It was fascinating to watch the switches turn over in people's minds as the story went on. Now I get to throw all my pieces out on the table again and see what new arrangement I can make. Muwahaha.Chip - Sweet. Man, if I won you over with my approach then I must be doing something right. I'm always walking a fine line when I respond to people in these comments. It feels cheap to say "Yeah, but you don't know where it's going and I DO." So I don't. But it's nice that it all makes sense looking back. Certainly I'm mostly to blame for the perception that SF is a comedy. I mean, in all of chapter 1 I think there's only one strip that doesn't end on a punchline. If I'm honest, it took me the first 100 strips to really figure what SF actually is. I mean, I've always known the story, but the tone I needed to follow through was hard to grasp for a while there. And...you're welcome. Glad I read you right.
Wit - What? I didn't say anything.
tyler_durden says...
posted 10/28/08 3:35 pm
ahhhhhh...i see.stupid friendship! :)
Wesc says...
posted 10/28/08 4:12 pm
When I heard "Doctor Rocket is dead!" on the Drunkduck page, I thought the guy was trying to trick the people who don't go on the domain site.I don't know what to say... But not in a bad way.
amanda says...
posted 10/28/08 4:22 pm
Wow, reading the rest of the comments/comment backs is really fascinating. It feels weird to be so emotionally invested in a "villain," and you're so right - everyone was like, "Hell yeah, we heart Tangerine!" because he was presented as so rebellious and sassy... but man. MAN. The only comic character I've wanted to punch so badly is one of my own.Switching gears again - do we get to hear Colleen's touching words about Star Maiden? I'm just curious (or nosy - they're synonyms) ^.^
Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 4:53 pm
Tyler D. - Yep, that was a tricky one. It was just one line and you had think about it a second. "If they weren't enemies, then what's the opposite of that...?" But I was very impressed that you got all the others right. Nice work, my friend!Wesc - I know! I can't believe he did that! I'm glad it prompted you to come over though. DD is just going to fall more and more behind and I'd hate for more spoilers to get out there before you have a chance to read them.
Amanda - Everyone likes the rebel, don't they? And yet it's not like his character ever changed, right? He's exactly the same person now as when the chapter started. The only difference is that I finally SHOWED you who he and everyone else said he was. Makes a difference, doesn't it?
Colleen, you out there? Do you mind if I share with the rest of the class? I would only do so with your permission.
argonsassistant says...
posted 10/28/08 6:28 pm
My God man what have you done?I have just lost a 2 dollar bet on Dr Rocket! Im not sure but I think Im pissed in a sad kinda way!Brock says...
posted 10/28/08 8:02 pm
Argonassistant - You're stickin' with it though, right? Sorry about losing the bet.japlander says...
posted 10/28/08 11:09 pm
After the initial shock of loosing my favorite character.... Now opens up a HATE towards Tangerine... after first liking him.I have a feeling on what will happen next, but I will keep it to myself (has to do with Doc Rock's final words) but still at a loss at why CS is not doing anything to what Tangerine has done to the women...
Great story telling Brock... Just wanted you to know that the hook has seated... I here for the long run!!!
crash [from myspace] says...
posted 10/28/08 11:43 pm
brock... brock... how could you?!...i'm gonna miss the stuttering old fart... : (
Tad says...
posted 10/29/08 5:39 am
will we finally be able ot find out why he suddenly stuttered?Scott says...
posted 10/29/08 6:43 am
Brock -- I know why you did what you did, and it was still uncalled for. I gave it a day to see if my feelings were still the same and they are. In a way I feel like I'm just wasting my breath since there's no way to undo what's done, but at least it will give some sort of explanation beyond "I'm done reading"Super Fogeys was set up in a tone of 'funny comic' -- the gruesome death of a key character doesn't just 'cross the line' but it's irrecoverably damaged the comic. It's not like violence was a staple of the comic, and I'd like to remind everyone that even if you don't see it, a crushed skull would leave a horrible aftermath and completely inappropriate for the established tone.
No matter what you do from here on out, it's over. Revive anyone and it just cheapens it.
Captain Spectacular's failure to do ANYTHING has killed any empathy I might have felt for the character. Punching out SpyGal should have prompted him to immediate action, and it's not like he didn't have time since Star Maiden stalled things. So I don't care what Klein does to him now. And if I don't care about that -- as he's the protagonist -- I don't care about the comic anymore.
I hated Tangerine from the get-go, and even if you killed him horribly his past relationships will prevent him from being dumped and forgotten about like he should be. So I don't even have any motivation to see if Tangerine gets what's coming to him.
I don't like saying this as I respect your artistic and writing ability, but the fact remains that while you might have redeemed Dr. Rocket -- you've damned the comic.
wit says...
posted 10/29/08 7:00 am
Scott: I don't mean to offend you so don't take it this way...but don't you think you should try and give the creator the benefit of the doubt before "damning the comic" as you put it. I know Brock and I know his writing is sneaky and layered. I secretly hope that the Doc is not dead, however, if he IS dead there has to be a reason for it.So, I guess what I'm saying is let the plot breath a little before you cast such harsh and final words. You may not realize it, but these sort of comments are far more damaging to the creator and his collective works than a few unexpected plot twists.
Dawn says...
posted 10/29/08 7:38 am
Whoa!!!! You got GUTS Brock... I also believe you got sumthin' up your sleeve... please, the Doc doesn't need a HEAD to survive!I'm also wondering why the Captain is just standing idly by...
Scott says...
posted 10/29/08 8:39 am
Wit: This isn't something that I take lightly, and I know Brock layers his writing. I respect and admire Brock's ability. I actually understand the point of the writing -- he wanted to take a character similar to Wolverine and demonstrate the real and unsavoury aspects of their character. The only way to really drive the point home would be to kill a character the audience likes, but to keep it within the nature of the original, it would have to be unapologetic and an appropriate target -- thus, the redemption of Dr. Rocket and his subsequent murder.My feelings are that it was inappropriate for the given tone of the comic, and especially considering the implied violence in how it was carried out. If it was Wolverine, being stabbed to death by claws, while unpleasant, is a far cry from having your head burst from pressure. It's likely more painful, but worse still it leaves your corpse in a horrible, gruesome mess.
As previously stated, there's a lot of problems with the execution, pardon the pun. Super Fogeys set its tone as funny and let's face it: It's about supers in a rest home, firmly placing it as a light-hearted tongue-in-cheek parody. A twist like this is unexpected because its wholly inappropriate. It's gory, it's dark, it's nasty. Fine if real life dropped by a little more frequently, but Star Maiden is hilariously delusional as opposed to sadly suffering from dementia.
This isn't some knee-jerk reaction, I honestly believe it's a mistake, and for me it can't be taken back. Kill a character to make a serious point, and if you go "Hey look he's back" then you just undermined everything.
What I'm saying is I like and respect Brock, hence my expansion on my original leave. If anything, a strong reaction like mine is a compliment in that the work meant something to me. The fact that my reaction is also to stop reading is also important to know.
wit says...
posted 10/29/08 9:01 am
Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinions as does Brock. My whole point is don't bail on the strip with out some sort of closure.You have to understand cartoonists. We are a sick bunch. We're always looking to explore darkness and oddity...even if it's in a humorous environment. I honestly think we all have this sick desire to kill our characters.
I don't think it's a mistake at all. I don't think it should be taken back. And, in all honesty, Brock (or any other artist out there) shouldn't write his plot with fear of the reader's lash back. This is his creation and universe. He does what he sees fit. In the end, I guess you, as the reader, have to do the same.
But to say "that's it, I'm done reading" is a slap in the face and a lack of trust that Brock will bring the plot back around to a level playing field. Brock wrote what he thinks works. And, by the judging of the comments, he definitely got peoples attention. Yes, a head exploding is gross. But when all is said and done, this is a comic strip. It's not based on reality.
Hell, my grandmother suffers from dementia (pretty badly actually) yet I take no offense in Star Maiden. I can laugh at it.
But in all honesty, and be honest...you're invested in Superfogeys. You know damn well you'll be reading it. You may not make your presence known, but you'll be back.
ClobberGirl says...
posted 10/29/08 9:08 am
Wow Laura... I never knew you had so much free time on your hands. Want to write my grad school application essays for me?Thanks for pointing me to this comic, Paul loves it too.
Jarrett says...
posted 10/29/08 9:15 am
I am glad he's dead...how many more to kill before my strip can move into the genre you dominate?;)
Well done, I mean it. Awesome strip.
Jarrett
JE Draft says...
posted 10/29/08 9:34 am
I agree with Scott, though not to the point of writing off this generally excellent strip. There was so much time for a real hero to have done something. CS saw Tangerine sucker punch the love of his life, his future wife and he stands there? I mean, JUST STANDS THERE? If this is even a satire of a superhero comic, a Superman type (even a satire, IMO) would haul off and belt Tangerine immediately. *Immediately.* It doesn't have to save Dr. Rocket - I'm okay with Tangerine killing him. But Is Captain Spectacular a coward? A wimp? Suffering from some form of paralysis? Is he an alternate-universe Evil Captain Spectacular? Does he actually hate Spy-gal and thinks it's cool that she got smacked? (If so, where is his goatee?) When do we get the obligatory fight scene? Was he ever a hero? I got the impression that he had been, at one point. Or do the Super-Fogeys just sit back and let evil things happen in their midst with an "oh, well" attitude and let the orderlies clean up the blood while they go sit and watch soaps and wait for the next meal time?These are the questions, and I'll definitely be looking forward to seeing Spygal toss whatever ring or promise he gave her back in Captain Spectacular's wimpy-ass, worthless face.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 10:04 am
Hoo-boy. Guess it's time for me to get in here.Japlander - Thanks for the show of faith, man. There's lots more story to tell and a lot of what happened in this chapter will be clarified as time goes on. All the cards are not out on the table yet.
Crash - Hey, good to hear from you! I didn't do it, y'know. It was Tangerine!
Tad - Yes, in the next Chapter. Look for an extra-long tease of Chapter 6 on Thursday.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 10:05 am
Scott - Strong words, and I don't entirely disagree. While there has been violence in the strip before now, it certainly hasn't been to this level. And, certainly, that was by design. I didn't do it just for shock value, but to actually make a point. It's both the exclamation point on why I introduced Tangerine in the first place, and also, for me, rings true to the kind of surprises life can hold for us in general. Without getting too much into it, my life has certainly been rocked by extreme violence, and there was no warning or consideration for the happy "tone" of my life beforehand. That's kind of how these things strike. Now, I realize that this is a comic strip and NOT real life, but one of the staples of my writing and even the SuperFogeys so far, is this contrast between the light and the dark. The challenge is: how do I go from this and then come back to the humor? Can we laugh about dark things and still be in good taste? Should we laugh about those things? I'm exploring the answers to those questions and I think I know how to handle it. But I knew that not everyone would agree before I did it.Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 10:05 am
Wit - I appreciate the faith you're showing me here. I'm all about the "plans within plans" and there is certainly a greater purpose to all this, beyond even the commentary on superheroes and plot concerns. What will be most interesting is the thing that all of you keep coming back to again and again: What's up with Captain Spectacular? Scott says he doesn't sympathize with CS anymore. You know what? I'm okay with that. I don't think you have to like the protagonist. CS is deeply flawed and, to me, to have your main character behaving this way is much more interesting than if he really were just a cookie-cutter Superman type. Personally, I do feel bad and sympathize for CS. He got one friend back (Dr. Rocket) and then lost him again, and he probably feels he was betrayed by another (Tangerine). I think everyone needs to go a little easier on him, but rest assured that his inaction in this chapter WILL be addressed.Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 10:06 am
Dawn - Yeah, either "guts" or stupidity. This is a risk, no doubt about that. Only time will tell if Scott is alone or not.Scott - I want you to know that I respect your opinion immensely. You've been a supporter of SF and have always been kind enough to leave comments and for that I will always be grateful. I want you to know that it DOES impact me that you no longer wish to read the strip. You feel I broke a contract with you and that's something I wish hadn't happened. While my game plan isn't going to change, you can bet that your words will reverberate with me in the months to come.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 10:06 am
Wit - I hope you're right about Scott. I hope he can find it within himself to stick with it, but I'll understand if he doesn't. Thanks so much for coming to the defense of SF like this. What the readers think means a great deal to me, but I think you're absolutely right that I can't change what I'm doing out of fear. That's a vision compromised and the beauty of this thing called webcomics is that I get to do whatever I want, beholden only to my own sensibilities and what I believe is good storytelling. The one thing I can promise: I'm not going to do something just to cause a reaction. That's not what I'm about.Clobbergirl - Welcome to both you and Paul! New readers are always appreciated around here. And you know Laura? Even better. She's the superfan I never knew I had.
Jarrett - Thanks, man. You know that's my true goal: kill off the SuperFogeys until there's no one left and Some Day Hero can rise to the top.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 10:13 am
JE Draft - First of all, welcome! I don't think I've seen you around here before. Thanks so much for making your voice heard. Well said, sir! As for CS and Spy Gal...yeah, just wait. It will be dealt with. I think the thing to remember for now is that Tangerine is CS's friend and just didn't think that he would really do it. There's more to it than that, having mostly to do with CS's strength, or lack thereof, of character.JE Draft says...
posted 10/29/08 10:27 am
Yeah, well, CS has no strength of character that I can see. Anybody smacks my girlfriend, I don't care if they hand me my head afterwards, they get whatever I got right in their face.And oh, yes - it seems that Dr. Rocket is definitely a very SENIOR senior citizen. In a superhero world, what does that mean? Could be that he's a Raj Al Ghul type who periodically becomes reborn or renewed - could be interesting and would mean that he's not necessarily permanently dead. His whole line about not being the person that he was - could be literally. Could be a sign of a physical as well as spiritual transformation.
Or it could be that the git who made the headstone was just high.
crash [from myspace] says...
posted 10/29/08 11:13 am
yah sure, tangerine. it's just... so not cool.hurry up with next one. lol
Tad says...
posted 10/29/08 11:41 am
I tried to post a long one and it wouldn't let me. here is a test.Tad says...
posted 10/29/08 11:42 am
I think this is an appropriate time for me to address what humor is. what is funny? It is different for all of us.For me, this doesn't take away from the funny aspect of the SuperFogeys at all, but contributes to further development of it. I am not saying Dr. Rocket's murder is funny, I am saying it is like yeast in bread. Yeast doesn't taste good. It's byproducts smell bad too. But without it, bread would be flat and boring, like a big cracker.
humor is a fantastic remedy for grief, misery, sadness, and everything bad. There are opposites in all things.
Tad says...
posted 10/29/08 11:42 am
I mean, you look at the Superfogeys as being a strictly funny comic because they are super heroes in a home for the elderly, but if you really think about it, what is so funny about nursing homes? that is where people go when their families can't (or won't) take care of them, when they cannot take care of themselves. What is so inherently funny about an adult (and a super hero) who needs to be spoon fed while wearing an adult diaper?That is precisely the point of the superfogeys, it is funny and it is not. It is funny because it delves into the reality of life that other comics that sell more tend to ignore.
humor is much deeper than that, there are always elements of sadness or misery in humor, sometimes it is just hidden more than others.
Why hide it? It is insulting to the reader to hide it, in my opinion. Brock will not insult his readers, ever.
Our culture has a taboo of death, I think Brock is out to break that becasue it is unhealthy. death is a part of life, you can't have one without the other on this Earth. Why ignore half of our existence when it comes to a comic?
I just wonder if Brock really knew that this much controversy would appear from this strip.
I know we will get some more funnies though, but they won't be superficial. the whole time he has been writing this he has been delicately thinking about the balance between humor and storyline. There have been plenty of unfunny strips before, they built up the story and made more potential for even more entertainment.
This strip is no different.
Scott says...
posted 10/29/08 12:36 pm
Something has been bothering my conscience, and I finally realized what it was -- and that was announcing a quit. I didn't catch it at first, but realized later that even though I don't want to hurt Brock or his chances of success with Super Fogeys, by announcing something like that, it was exactly was I was doing.If someone stops reading under normal circumstances they do so quietly. Voicing it means you either want attention, or are protesting -- and even though I liked Dr. Rocket from the beginning and hated Tangerine even before he showed up, I don't really want to influence artistic direction.
The thing is, I still would like to see Super Fogeys succeed, and I like and respect you Brock, and your work.
I don't think my opinion has any influence on the readers, but at the same time my prior presence was that of a strong supporter, so a 360 like that wouldn't help either.
Brock, please accept my sincere apology for inappropriate commenter behaviour.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 2:08 pm
JE Draft - Ha! I like the last one. Unfortunately, I can confirm that the person who engraved the headstone was NOT high. He may be a Veusian Rock Man, but he assures me that he never inhales.Crash - Next post is an early look at the cover for the next book, but it does include a lengthy teaser for Chapter 6, which starts on Tuesday.
Tad - Yes, there is a length issue to these comments. Don't know what that's about. That's why I've been dividing up my responses, like so...
tpiro says...
posted 10/29/08 2:08 pm
Just to flesh out my original comment (way up there at the top), I think I was blown away by the gory violent nature of the act more so than the act itself. I think it was an interesting and important event in the story. But the fact that it was so gory (but still almost comical with the "pop" sound effect) and the way that CS just stood by really surprised me. Even in most superhero comics, they would have been happy with a broken neck or a broken back.Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 2:21 pm
Tad - Wow, man, I could not say it better myself. In fact, if you scroll up, I think you'll find that I have said it poorly already. You echo my thoughts and feeling precisely. There's always been an undercurrent of tragedy and, yes, even darkness to SF. It's just there in the premise (which you so generously gave to me). So, yeah, what Tad said.Scott - I don't accept your apology because it is entirely unnecessary. You have remained respectful throughout, though impassioned. I have immense respect for your feelings and think that everything you've brought up is valid.
I appreciate that you don't wish me or SF any ill will. If you do choose to stop reading, I hope that you will still check in every so often and see what we're all up to. I don't think I'm ever going to change things around to your satisfaction, but you are always welcome here. If anything, drop by and let us all know you're out still out there an kickin'.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 2:24 pm
Tpiro - True. Again, there was a point to doing it this way. And, remember that Tangerine already told us exactly what he does with "bad guys." All he did here is follow through. What does that say about us as readers? Why did we like him when he just talked about it, but not when he actually did it?I've said too much.
Frumph says...
posted 10/29/08 2:35 pm
I'm with TPiro on this one just didn't know how to articulate it corrently.I've told countless kids to come read this comic alot in real life and i've dreaded talking to my friends who are moms who are looking at me funny about the strip.
I could have done without the head-crushing panel, with the eyes popping out; seriously giving me a hugely bad visage of abnormality - maybe if it was just the top of his head view with his hands around the head without the face it wouldnt be so obtrusive.
The rating of this comic imo went from a general audiences to parental disgression in the blink of an eye.
- Phil
Frumph says...
posted 10/29/08 2:38 pm
erm jeeze where's a dictionary when I need one.. pg-13 is what I mean, parents strongly cautionedMichael DeVito says...
posted 10/29/08 2:42 pm
It is kind of amusing that guys like Wolverine and Punisher, basically cold blooded killers were the most popular characters back in the late 80s to mid 90s, because this isn't much different from how they were portrayed.Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 2:45 pm
Frumph - And that's perhaps the most compelling argument I've seen yet for this being a bad idea. I still stand by what I've done here. Personally, I have no problem letting my daughters read SF, even this one. But that's not a choice every parent is going to make.I'm sorry if I've put you or anyone in an awkward position. I've never written this as an all-ages comic, so I've never really though of it that way.
However, I can say this: this is entirely an isolated incident. I can't think of any time in the future where you're ever going to see anything close to this. Even if I choose to have Tangerine kill again, it won't be like this. The point's been made.
Michael DeVito says...
posted 10/29/08 2:46 pm
Even later look at professional wrestling, the most popular guy was the beer guzzling, trashy ultra violent Stone Cold Steve Austin.That said I see where Frumph and Tpiro are coming from, especially as someone who has sold the series to parents at conventions etc, though I would say that it has never been 100% kid friendly . Instead it has been more PG than G rated.
I think once this storyline resolves itself people will be more at peace with the decisions made, because they are very much grounded in the story.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 2:49 pm
Michael D. - No, it's not. But, again, I don't plan on ever revisiting this level of violence. I mean, even from the beginning, I clearly was not writing for kids.Scott King says...
posted 10/29/08 4:06 pm
I've been trying to comment for about 3 hours now!!! ((Mike I think it doesn't recognize my email when I use my normal one))Anyway the post I've been trying to post is this...
hahahahha look at that other Scott who isn't cool enough to have a last name. He say's he's quiting even though he LOVES the SF. Then he tries to apologize but says he's still going to stop reading. LAME! That's right faux Scott. I am mocking you. Muhahahaha!!!
Look, Brock... here is how things work. You write/draw and as a creator your goal is to make people/readers care about the characters and world you create. So ignore whatever this scotto-the-lamo is being a baby about and just focus on the fact that your work was able to make him react as much as it did. I mean for him to respond in such an emotional way... well it just means you're doing things right. People like and care about the characters. So congratulations man. I only hope that one day people hate my work enough to spend the time to bitch and complain about it.
P.S. -- we need more Space Pig!
doubledcomics says...
posted 10/29/08 4:11 pm
I think it's a clever plot twist that should challenge Brock as a writer because it's a dark moment that has yet to be seen (in this level) in the SF. Art, imitating life, has these dark moments. And it's in this fictional dark moment I believe we will see a new side of character development that may show us new shades to the characters we've invested ourselves in. I say, bravo Brock, and I can't wait to see where you go from here.DD.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 4:30 pm
Scott King - I see your frustration built up to a full boil! Go easy on Scott, I still maintain he makes good, valid points. No name-calling or mocking needed. (Scott, you should know that Scott King is what Swifty would call a "@#$%" and he eats his Wheaties in a plastic bowl adorned with Strawberry Shortcake.) I am glad that people are reacting to what I'm doing. I appreciate that they care so much--you're right in that that is what is at the core of all of this. As a writer, that gives me special, wholly appropriate, tinglies inside. As for the Space Pig...someone has to conduct the funeral, right?DoubleDComics - Spot on. There's no going back from this point. Things are changing, and hopefully it's to everyone's liking. Certainly now everyone is on their guard for the "big twist." Some I'm sure people will figure out along the way, but hopefully not the big ones.
hjones831 says...
posted 10/29/08 4:53 pm
Whoa.First of all, LOTS of feedback! Wow!
And secondly, whoa. I'm sure gonna miss DR... it's sad. But I trust you. :) More funny stuff coming, right? :)
Scott King says...
posted 10/29/08 5:04 pm
Ok seriously having problems posting. I've been told it may be a character limit issue so I'm breaking up my post...The general complaints seem to be about the 'graphic" nature of the violence in this strip. "OMG it's not kid friendly anymore?!"
--But let's take a look at the actual strip. For example, it opens up with the eye-bugging-out panel. What's important to note that in real life, if someone squeezed your head, your eyes wouldn't bug out like this. So clearly this panel clearly establishes that this is simply cartoon violence. I mean come on, I've seen worse stuff in a Roadrunner cartoon!
-What that's not proof enough? Fine. Look at the "POP" panel. Now mind you, I've not personally heard a head being crushed but I have a feeling
that the sound is more of a crunching/squishing sound. The "POP" only further establishes that this is cartoon violence.
Scott King says...
posted 10/29/08 5:04 pm
- The actual act of the head squashing, something that would be utterly gorey to show... actually happens off screen. So for all you people who are offended or repulsed, then you are only being put off by your own imagination. Brock didn't show the act. There isn't anything "graphic" in the panel. The "graphic" content is happening in your mind and you are the one allowing it to happen there. It's not like Brock is using special mind powers to put gross thoughts into your brains.- Moving along, we see blood throughout the rest of the strip. Sure blood may seem intense or whatever you guys want to say... but they show more blood and gore on TV shows labeled TV-G. There was a whole episode of "Ben 10" where he's bleeding to death until Gwen saves him. The new "Spiderman" show on CW which is rated TV-Y (all ages) has shown blood splater worse than what's in SF.
So in summation, for those of you who have been offended by the violence and feel it's not kid friendly, clearly you have no idea what's currently out there. Sure "SuperFogeys" is more intense than your average "Dora the Explorer" episode... but that's not the audience that was ever intended to read the strip ---if people who watch content like that can even read.
argonsassistant says...
posted 10/29/08 6:31 pm
Hey Brock you got me hooked on This comic so long as you keep drawing it.I realize the struggles of being a cartoonist I am also a comic artist.I know how you have become depressed the last few months and I soo understand!I have been at this game a while now.I did comic strips for years in the newspaper and understand deadlines and little pay if any.In those days I didn't have the web or computers everything was blood and tears to produce comics,I started in my local paper and branched outward only the readers kept me going.Over time I began to ask if it was all worth the time and attention that I was giving it over friends and family so I stopped.This was the biggest mistake of my life.Only now many years later can I see what should have been,and I don't mean money!if you ever get down off of that horse you will never get back on it and if you do like me you feel a profound sense of loss.You do make a difference,It is more than a comic,and you do alter reality for yourself and those around you by producing your work!Your probably don't understand the magnitude of what Im telling you but it is a gift of experience from me to you.Never,ever give it up,You matter and your work profoundly matters!Kathryn says...
posted 10/29/08 7:37 pm
D:Noooo! I'm wondering a little about Dr. Rocket at the moment. I had thought that he was a robot with the way he was acting, but all that blood and guts and eyes! NOOO!
DX I hates that tangerine. I wants to eat his brains like the tangerine he is.
Brock says...
posted 10/29/08 7:51 pm
HJones - More funny stuff coming, I promise. I mean, what's funnier than a funeral, right?Scott King - Dude, I love that breakdown. I have to say that I didn't have any idea stuff that graphic was out there, but I do think the Simpsons would have been able to get away with this gag just exactly as I've depicted it here. And you're right...most of it is off-panel. Thanks for the perspective, champ!
ArgonAssistant - Wow, speaking of perspective. Man, that story makes me cry a little. You can always go back! Good, good cautionary tale. I don't want to quit and that's the truth. I have a hard time imagining SF not in my life, so your words are well-taken. It means a lot that someone like you would feel that way about what I'm doing here.
Kathryn - Is this the same Kathryn I know in real life? Only reason I ask is because that's an unusual spelling you don't see too often. You can't hate Tangerine that bad, right? I mean, you didn't like Dr. Rocket once upon a time, am I right? Maybe you'll come to like Tangerine again one day...
thegreatedhead says...
posted 10/30/08 12:00 am
Man Ed has been gone too long :(I can certainly say I never expected that to happen...
ClobberGirl says...
posted 10/30/08 4:45 pm
Hi Brock,My husband and I are Laura's former roommates. She is the best, and her pet cat is so snuggly! Laura pointed your comic out to me the other day when she said she won.
We read web comics often enough, though they tend to drive me crazy because I get involved in the stories and think they're awesome, then real life hits the author upside the head and we don't get an update for two months. I know people do this in their spare time, but.... AAAAHHHHH!!!!
Anyways, we'll be lurking.
ClobberGirl says...
posted 10/30/08 5:01 pm
BTW, I notice that on your bio you are (or were?) LDS. So is my husband.Brock says...
posted 10/30/08 9:43 pm
TheGreatEdHead - Welcome back, Ed!Clobbergirl - The only reassurance I can give you about possible addiction to the SuperFogeys is that I've never missed an update in 2 years. There was one week that I took off, but that was scheduled. I'll probably do the same thing this Christmas. If I say there's going to be an update, then darn it--there's going to be an update. Really glad to have you on board!
And yes, I am and always have been LDS. You say your husband is LDS? So is my wife! (That's a bad joke, but actually she didn't grow up in the church. She got baptized just before we got married.) If you don't mind my asking (and if you do just ignore me), what has been your experience with the church?
chaseman113 says...
posted 11/4/08 7:54 pm
Holy crap........ whoa , lol If I didn't already hate tangerine. On a lighter note "Nikola T" is awesome.Brock says...
posted 11/4/08 8:44 pm
Chaseman113 - Hey, thanks for catching that on the gravestone. I think most people were a little too shocked to notice.doubledcomics says...
posted 11/11/08 1:55 pm
Actually, I'd claim #175DD.
Skeptible says...
posted 1/21/09 12:05 pm
Wow, that got a reaction!Well, I am still playing catchup, but I thought I would post my theory now rather than just reading until the answers are revealed.
I blame Dr Klein. I think that the Captain feels a lot of loyalty to Tangerine but it's more than that. I also think he is behind Dr. Rocket's stuttering, and quite possibly his change of heart (the two being related).
I for one never thought Tangerine was cool. He was introduced as a killer in a group of Golden Age, as it were, heroes and villains. He never was a nice guy. It was alway more than "bad-boy" attitude. The wolverine that I remember reading talked alot, but his attacks were not as obviously fatal as skull crushing.
Also 598 BC! I guess I missed that part of Dr Rocket's background.
Brock says...
posted 1/21/09 12:11 pm
Skeptible - Sweet theory. You're about to get a LOT more information about the questions you pose here. All will be revealed shortly in the current Chapter 6.Thanks for getting Tangerine. Not everyone did. However, his story is still not quite finished. He is a regular cast member now and we'll be catching up with him soon, just you wait. I think I have really fun place to take him.
As for the 598 B.C., no, you didn't miss anything! When this strip came out I hadn't revealed any of Dr. Rocket's background. Currently, in Chapter 6, I'm doing a flashback that explains this birthdate so check that out for more answers!